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General Discussion » I hate "Anti Cub" people and I think they're dumb. » Post 3

Josesk Volpe

Back in the middle 2000s of Furry Fandom, nobody was looking up the canonical ages of fictional cartoon animal people to check if drawing lewd art of them was ā€œProblematicā€ or not
In the past, there already were furs policing artwork, kinks and identities. I.E. the Furry Sexuality Survey from The Furry Revolution by The Chained Wolf made a poll to research fetishes, paraphilias and sexualities in the furry subculture back then, it included samples of the most commons comments of those who answered the polls, some claims zoophiles and babyfurs are unacceptable and that both are harmful to the community.
> The people who have sexual feelings for animals use the furry community to their advantage, they use the over tolerant atmosphere of the group to avoid criticism and socialise with actual Human beings for a change. Also, they try to hide themselves amongst the Furries who have more conventional beliefs hoping that everyone elses image shadows over theirs (rather like a needle in a haystack), but they fail to realise that they actually stick out like a sore thumb (just use a magnet and the needle will come out). Zoophiles do more damage to the group by typecasting it, rather than giving it diversity. The same goes to Babyfurs, I believe that they have the potential to stain the furry fandom far worse than they ever could do to their nappies. Both zoophiles and babyfurs are unacceptable in my view.
This back in 2008.
We can go even further on the past back in the 1998, when we got the first alert of what we will be dealing today. The well known Burned Furs, which many furs usually makes the revisionism saying it was just a regular anti-gay group (or even worse, saying they were just trying to cleanse the furry rep) but their first targets were the zoophiles, spiritualist furries (therians wasnā€™t a word back then), vegetarians and lycanthropes, also usually targeted all the weird artworks and furry expression from that time.
So, see, it always existed in furry, it just currently became a trend. Furry always had this contradiction between being the weirdest and very acceptive subculture but also having the issue of being so huge in hate of other furs differences. We canā€™t treat it as a new thing perpetuated by dumbasses, this is a phenomenon which we already had in the past, weā€™re having again, and as such will end pretty soon, but may repeat again and again. We didnā€™t deal with this threat, instead we focused on keeping a good sight for the media.
If this is a phenomenon we have to comprehend why this became a trend the second time. Back on the 90ā€™s, the Burned Furs were mostly made of frustrated furry artists, it was also that time that the internet began to be more popular and widely used, the furry community occupied that space much earlier but it was still very new to the community, the decentralization changes it has made to the subculture arrived as a shock for some older furs who were used to participate via APAs. The decentralization allowed many artists to share and sell their artworks independently but also brought somewhat a inequality, which arrived to frustrate some artists from that time. It also brought anonymity but some furs preferred to use their real names. The media influence was sensationalist and sex-negative, some furs who used real names were afraid of losing their jobs or having a impact on their families, while some furs perceived the media attention as a result of their lifestyle being so separated from their mundane lifestyle to have been scaring out the mundanes, which was seem as a negative, neutral or a positive result. The Burned Furs took all that and blamed the furry minorities because, in their words, not the media and the sex-negative capitalist society, but they, the ā€˜degeneratedā€™ were making a bad image of furry and flaming out all other furries along them, so it was necessary to keep them out of the community. The similarity with the current rethorics arenā€™t merely coincidence.
The current furry subculture is facing the opposite economical progress, weā€™re now facing centralization, and back in the 10ā€™s weā€™ve got the furry exodus where the furry community grew, furries websites began to decay, usage of mobile apps increased a lot while web decreased, and furries began to move to mainstream social media such as Facebook and Twitter to share and sell artwork. Itā€™s also the same time weā€™ve seem the rise of the far-right in the world which used (and also governed) the same social media algorithms. Social polarization spreaded a lot not only in furry but in the entire society.

General Discussion » I hate "Anti Cub" people and I think they're dumb. » Post 2

Kitsu-Negi
Uploader of the Month -
Fox -

Moderator
Gayest of Gay Foxes
Even if the American Laws change to more closely resemble the laws of Canada, France, United Kingdom, Australia, Italy and Switzerland (the countries that have banned ā€œProblematicā€ cartoon artwork) ā€” a cartoon drawing of a fictional bipedal talking animal will NEVER be logically / factually equal to Genuine CSEM of a Real Human Person who exists In Real Lifeā€¦.
No more than a bag of Vegan Chik-N Nuggets could ever be logically / factually equal to a bag of ACTUAL Chicken Nuggetsā€¦ care to take a guess as to WHY they arenā€™t equal?
One is made of plants and requires NO harm to be done to an animal in its manufacturing process.
And the other one does! ā€¦. (For the record, Iā€™m not even a Vegan, this is purely for the sake of argument).
Now, apply the same logic to cartoon artā€¦ The 2D hand drawn art DOES NOT require the harm of an Actual Human Person as part of its manufacturing processā€¦. and the Genuine Actual Factual CSEM doesā€¦.
This is why they will never be logically / factually / rationally / legitimately equalā€¦.
Even if American Law changes to be more like the other countriesā€¦.
The ONLY way that it is ā€œlogicallyā€ & ā€œfactuallyā€ equal is if the artist is basing their drawings on REAL peopleā€¦
F.A. can ban whatever kind of artwork it wants to, but F.A. is NOT the United States Government, and I care way more about the general law and how it affects EVERY website, way - way - way more than I care about F.A.
ā€¦ā€¦ā€¦.
18 U.S. Code Ā§ 2256 ā€” Section 9
18 U.S. Code Ā§ 2256 ā€” Section 11
1 U.S. Code Ā§ 8 ā€¦ā€¦ (Defines what ā€œPersonā€ means)
Ashcroft v. Free Speech Coalition ā€¦ā€¦.. (Defines CURRENT U.S. LAW, not outdated 2003 law).
ā€¦ā€¦ā€¦..
The key wording in all of these is ā€œVirtually Indistinguishableā€ from an ACTUAL personā€¦.
Or at the very least BASED on an Actual Personā€¦. THEN it becomes illegal under U.S. Law.
Keep in mind, the Protect Act of 2003 was ruled unconstitutional and replaced by the CPPAā€¦..
Knee-Jerk Reactions and screaming at people on Twitter cannot magically make Yiffy Art of Tails and Sonic count as actual, factual, genuine CSEMā€¦. Tails and Sonic are NOT real peopleā€¦. just like how a Plushie is NOT a real animal, just like how Vegan Nuggets are NOT made of actual chickensā€¦..
And sure, you can certainly pull the ā€œbut what is that Vegan Nugget trying to simulate?ā€ argument, but what it is trying to simulate is far less important than WHAT IT ACTUALLY IS MADE OFā€¦.. you can TEST those Vegan Nuggets by sending them off to a lab for analysisā€¦ to PROVE what they are made ofā€¦.
I would imagine the same kinds of tests exist for testing drawings (LIKE LOOKING AT THEM WITH YOUR EYES AND REALIZING THAT ITā€™S A CARTOON and not a PERSON)ā€¦..
As for hyper-realistic pencil sketch drawings with no hint of cartoon exaggeration, if it looks like a Human Person, then it passes as a Human Person, which makes it qualify as CSEMā€¦. the same hyper-realism would apply to A.I. Generated images trained on Real People, which means they also count.
Anyone with two functioning eyeballs and a working brain can tell that a Cartoon Furry Drawing looks NOTHING at all like a Real Flesh Nā€™ Blood Human Being who exists in Real Lifeā€¦.. despite what Angry Delusional Twitter Users have spent years and years brainwashing you into believingā€¦.
Unless you have a SEVERE case of Oneirataxia (google that term) ā€“ you are 100% capable of telling the difference between Fictional Cartoon Furry Artwork and photos of an Actual Human Beingā€¦ā€¦
False Equivalence Fallacies and Moral Equivalence Fallacies be damned!

General Discussion » I hate "Anti Cub" people and I think they're dumb. » Post 1

Kitsu-Negi
Uploader of the Month -
Fox -

Moderator
Gayest of Gay Foxes
ā€¦ā€¦
Iā€™ll just bring my two comments HERE, since to my knowledge, you canā€™t even read a journal entry or anything without first making a Fur Affinity accountā€¦.
ā€¦ā€¦
I hate what Furry Fandom has turned into ā€” a Non-Stop ā€œPurity Spiralā€ or ā€œMorality Contestā€ to see who has the most ā€œGodly Kinksā€ and the most ā€œSocially Acceptable Fetishesā€ which is quite strange coming from a Fandom that used to not care at allā€¦ back in the Middle 2000s of Furry Fandom, nobody cared enough to screech at you for drawing Rule 34 of a Feral Scooby Doo, or Balto, or Lion Kingā€¦ā€¦. Nobody gave a damn if you drew Lewd Art of characters like Tails The Fox, or Buster Bunny, or Klonoaā€¦ā€¦ the entire concept of such things being ā€œProblematicā€ did not even exist yet, because Tumblr and Twitter did not exist yetā€¦.
Everyone in the Middle 2000s era of Furry Fandom completely understood that these things are PURE FICTIONā€¦ not equal to Real People in Real Life! But nowadays, everyone is looking for any excuse to crucify each other over the most insignificant piddly crapā€¦. ā€œOh, you have a Plushie fetish? Well that makes you no better than a damn Z00phile!ā€ ā€“ ā€œOh, you like a character who talks but walks on 4 legs and not 2? YOUā€™RE NO BETTER THAN A DAMN Z00PHILE!!!!ā€
Back in the middle 2000s of Furry Fandom, nobody was looking up the canonical ages of fictional cartoon animal people to check if drawing lewd art of them was ā€œProblematicā€ or notā€¦. but nowadays, thatā€™s just the trend, and if you DONā€™T follow the trend, you are treated like a witch in Salemā€¦. STRING ā€™EM UP!!!!
People actively harass each other OVER FICTIONā€¦. people doxx each other and threaten each other OVER FICTION, and I am frigginā€™ sick of it! This is STUPIDā€¦. and even ā€™Neer knew it was stupid back in 2006ā€¦. back when a handful of loud angry Fiction Moralists were demanding the banning of any artwork they deemed ā€œProblematic.ā€
ā€™Neer wanted to implement a Tags and Blacklist system so that people could curate their own experience, not have their experience DICTATED by a small but very angry and vocal minorityā€¦. sadly he did not live to see such a system implemented on his website, and even now, I doubt such a system will EVER be put into effect here on F.A.
Itā€™s easier to just keep banning things, rather than fix the website to make it better.
Itā€™s easier to scream at people who draw things than it is to go after REAL criminals who do REAL crimesā€¦.
The Dragoneer from 2006 would think all of this drama is hilarious and sad and very dumbā€¦.
What all has F.A. banned? Letā€™s see, Cub, then Pokemon, and now Baby Fursā€¦..
And everyone from those other ā€œevilā€ furry websites kept saying ā€œThis is a slippery slope, censorship of artwork is not a good thing,ā€ but nobody listened, they all just clapped and cheered and pointed fingers and threw bowling balls of blame in every direction ā€¦. remember what Neil Gaiman said? ā€¦. ā€œBy the time they come for what YOU like, itā€™s already too late.ā€
The BabyFurs are just now getting a taste of the sharp side of the Censorship Swordā€¦. who knows who is next?
Iā€™m sure whoever they are, they will learn nothing from history as it repeats before their very eyesā€¦.
ā€¦ā€¦ā€¦ā€¦ā€¦ā€¦ā€¦ā€¦
As for Red Rusker, I didnā€™t even know that you drew Cub Art at all, I always just thought you only drew Normie Stuff. Ya know, big tall muscle furs and suchā€¦ well, even with this new knowledge ā€“ I still donā€™t hate you. I donā€™t think you are an evil person for drawing things on a sheet of paper. I also do not think that you deserve to be harassed, stalked, doxxed or accused of horrendous things without tangible proofā€¦
Accusations require evidence, without evidence it is just rumors.
Donā€™t beat yourself up too much over this, and FOR GAWDā€™S SAKE donā€™t listen to the Twitter Freaksā€¦.
You drawing things isnā€™t magically going to make bad stuff happen in Real Life.
You choosing NOT to draw those things isnā€™t going to magically make bad stuff NOT happen eitherā€¦.|
What if every Video Game Maker, every TV Show Producer, every Movie Maker got hung up on this OCD fear that what they make will be used as an excuse for Bad Stuff happening? Nothing would get madeā€¦. no Artwork, no Music, no TV Shows, no Games, NOTHINGā€¦ because people would be too afraid of inspiring Real Life copy-cats.
Canā€™t do a show like Breaking Bad, someone might see it and decide to become the Real Life ā€œHeisenberg.ā€
Canā€™t do a show like Beavis and Butthead, someone might imitate that and accidentally burn down their trailer homeā€¦.
Eminem, D12, Insane Clown Posse, Marilyn Manson? ALL GONEā€¦. someone might imitate themā€¦.
Personally I think itā€™s MORONIC to blame ART for what someone else does.
And the artist blaming themselves for that is also pointlessā€¦.
Marilyn Manson didnā€™t magically make Columbine happenā€¦.
The artwork of Wolfblade, or Harmarist, or Aogami isnā€™t going to flip a switch in some delusional moronā€™s brain and make them into a ravenous-sicko-psychoā€¦. whatā€™s next? Do we blame The Beatles for the actions of Charles Manson? Can anyone even PROVE the theory that there were hidden subliminal messages in the songs telling Charlie what to do????
What other people do after consuming your artwork is not really YOUR fault, or YOUR responsibility.
Blame should be on the individual person, since it was THEIR decision to do those thingsā€¦.
If you donā€™t wanna draw a specific type of Furry Art anymore, thatā€™s fine, thatā€™s YOUR choiceā€¦.
But if I were in the same position, I would argue Tooth & Nail in favor of Facts and Truth and American Lawā€¦.
Not knee-jerk emotional reactions and Post Hoc Ergo Proper Hoc Fallacies and Gateway Drug Theoriesā€¦.
Iā€™d be flipping every Tumblr and Twitter Anti the finger and just continue drawing whatever the hell I want toā€¦.
And if people wanted to blame me for such and such Bad Thing happening IRL, or if they wanna screech at me that ā€œitā€™s problematicā€ ā€” I would simply ignore them, or argue my positions from a place of Pure Logic and tell them all to go kick rocks up a hillā€¦. I donā€™t owe anybody conformity, and neither do you.
ART IS ART, FICTION IS FICTIONā€¦.
Reality is Realityā€¦.
That will ALWAYS be my positionā€¦.
I HATE Twitter Antisā€¦.
(and sadly a lot of them decided to become mods on Furry Art galleries).

General Discussion » I hate "Anti Cub" people and I think they're dumb. » Topic Opener

Kitsu-Negi
Uploader of the Month -
Fox -

Moderator
Gayest of Gay Foxes
The artist ā€œRed Ruskerā€ (creator of Sea Salt the Dalmatian) apparently got ā€œexposedā€ for drawing NSFW Cub, the hate campaign started by the exposer resulted in RRā€™s Twitter being suspended. (I hate this shit, RR didnā€™t even post the images to his Twitter, someone ELSE dug up the art and raised a fuss about it and got their legion of trolls to Mass Flag his Twitter into oblivion, which is the same shit people did to Harmarist too).
ā€¦ā€¦ā€¦ā€¦ā€¦ā€¦ā€¦ā€¦
ā€¦ā€¦ā€¦ā€¦ā€¦ā€¦ā€¦ā€¦
Fuck the haters, DRAW WHAT YOU WANT TO DRAW.
Donā€™t kiss the asses of the Purity Police.

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